On Fire

Post from SARI:

What do you think of these two sections? Is the fire in both places a spiritual or physical aspect? Also, when does this judgement on the house of God start? Has it started already?

In Bible times fire played an important role, it was used for refining, forging, casting of metals, along with the preparing of food, heating homes, as well as the offering of sacrifices and the burning of incense. However, because of the destructiveness of a fire that is uncontrolled, James compared the tongue when used wrongly to a fire.—Jas 3:5-8; compare Pr 16:27.

The Bible also uses the imagery of fire to reveal the true quality of faith, can it withstand the fiery tests which are inevitable. The apostle Paul points this out when emphasizing the importance of building on Jesus Christ with fire-resistant materials.—1Co 3:10-15.

1 Cor. 3:12-15 (KJV) Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; [13] Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. [14] If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. [15] If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Verse 15 is interesting and raises an important question. In order to come to the correct understanding of this verse, one must go back to what Jesus command was to his disciples after his resurrection. This command is found at Matthew 28:19,20 “Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations…teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you…”

If we are doing what Jesus commanded and the person(s) we are endeavoring to help falls away from the truth, does that mean that we failed as teachers—that we must have built with inferior materials?

That may not necessarily be the case. Paul’s words certainly remind us that it is a great responsibility to share in building disciples and we would want to do everything in our power to build well. But God’s Word is not telling us to shoulder the whole responsibility and become burdened with guilt when those whom we seek to help turn away from the truth.

There are other factors that come into play besides our own role as builders. For example, notice what Paul says regarding even the teacher who has done a poor job in this building work: “He will suffer loss, but he himself will be saved.” (1 Corinthians 3:15)

The teacher may eventually gain salvation—whereas the Christian personality he endeavored to build in the student is pictured as being “burned up” in a fiery test—we must conclude that Almighty God holds the student primarily responsible for his/her own decisions as to whether he/she will follow a faithful course or not. Ezekiel 3:19 helps one get the full sense of what Paul is discussing. “But as for you, in case you have warned someone wicked and he does not actually turn back from his wickedness and from his wicked way, he himself for his error will die; but as for you, you will have delivered your own soul.”

Now, going back to the first part of the text that you quoted, we understand that Paul saw that when the building work [building of believers] in Corinth was not done properly, worldly traits, such as sectarianism and dissension, took root. This was dangerous because, as he explained, “the fire itself will prove what sort of work each one’s is.”—1 Corinthians 3:13.

What then, is the fire? It may be any test that Satan brings upon a Christian. It may be peer pressure, fleshly temptation, materialism, persecution, even the corrosive influence of doubts. We know for a certainty that these tests are sure to come. Therefore, in each case “Each one’s work will become manifest, for the day will show it up, because it will be revealed by means of fire.[testing]

1 Peter 4:17 (KJV) For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

1 Peter 4:17 informs us that mankind has entered into a period of judgment and that this judgment started “with the house of God”. What does this mean? Those professing to be of “the house of God,” have been under judgment during their Christian life course, beginning with the first of their number at Pentecost 33 C.E. However, during Christ’s Parousia he” would again make an inspection of those professing to be of the “house of God“, those organizations who profess Christianity and to be of the heavenly kingdom. This judgment of professed Christian organizations has been apparent since the period called “the last days“ began.

Jesus said by their fruits they will be recognized, identified. What has Jesus seen during his inspection of those who carry his name? He has seen those claiming to be of the faithful and discreet slave class actually being part of the harlot, committing spiritual prostitution with the kings of the earth, blessing war weapons, complicit in sacrificing young men and women to die on the altar to the god of war. They have actually abandoned the teachings of the Bible and reverted to pagan ideologies i.e hellfire, immortal soul, trinity, a clergy class et al.

Yes, the judgment, as Ezekiel 9:5,6 said, will start with the house of God “Pass through the city after him and strike. Let not your eye feel sorry, and do not feel any compassion.

6 Old man, young man and virgin and little child and women YOU should kill off—to a ruination. But to any man upon whom there is the mark do not go near, and from my sanctuary YOU should start.” So they started with the old men that were before the house.

Is the destruction indiscriminate? The answer is no - because just prior this judgment Ezekiel 9:3,4 states: “And as regards the glory of the God of Israel, it was taken up from over the cherubs over which it happened to be to the threshold of the house, and he began calling out to the man that was clothed with the linen, at whose hips there was the secretary’s inkhorn.

4 And JAH went on to say to him: “Pass through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and you must put a mark on the foreheads of the men that are sighing and groaning over all the detestable things that are being done in the midst of it.”

Are the clergy class of Christendom been marked for preservation? Has that man clothed in clean fine linen passed over the organizations professing Christ ? Have the organizations of Christendom been found lacking?

As for the apostle Peter’s mention of fire, this would refer to trials or sufferings as a “fire” that proves the quality of the Christian’s faith. (1Pe 1:6, 7) Then later, he likens suffering for righteousness to a burning when he tells his fellow Christians: “Do not be puzzled at the burning among you, which is happening to you for a trial, . . . you are sharers in the sufferings of the Christ, that you may rejoice and be overjoyed also during the revelation of his glory.” (1Pe 4:12, 13) That such suffering for righteousness has a beneficial effect is pointed out by the apostle Paul when he says: “Tribulation produces endurance.” (Ro 5:3) A person who faithfully and successfully passes through a difficult “burning” trial is stronger and more solidly established as a result of his endurance.—Ac 14:22; Ro 12:12.

Hebrews 12:29 (KJV) For our God is a consuming fire.

The Scriptures refer to Almighty God as a consuming fire because of his cleanness, purity, and insistence on exclusive devotion, as well as the fact that he annihilates those who set themselves in opposition to him. (De 4:24; 9:3) His ardor and rage burn like fire, and his “tongue” and word are like a fire. (Ps 79:5; 89:46; Isa 30:27; Jer 23:29) Moreover, JAH makes his angelic ministers a devouring fire, and by the fire of his zeal “the earth” will be devoured.—Ps 104:1, 4; Zep 3:8; see also Da 7:9, 10.

JAH himself is referred to as a refiner. His Word is highly refined. (2Sa 22:31; Ps 18:30; 119:140; Pr 30:5) This tried and tested Word is one means by which God purifies his people in removing all sinful dross/scum of uncleanness. (Ps 17:3; 26:2; 105:19; Da 12:9, 10; Mal 3:3) Fiery trials also refine the faithful. (Isa 48:10; Da 11:35; Zec 13:9; compare 1Pe 1:6, 7.) The wicked, on the other hand, are judged as nothing more than scummy dross, fit only for the worthless slag heap.—Ps 119:119; Pr 25:4, 5; Eze 22:18-20.

Divorcing of Pagan Myths

Post from SARI:

The Bible usages of Hades/Sheol is not the imagined place that the ancient non-Christian Greeks described in their mythologies as a “dark, sunless region within the earth,” for there was no resurrection from such mythological underworld.

This is where the mistranslations of these words become a problem. One must divorce themselves from the pagan myths which the Bible never makes reference to.

It is interesting that Almighty God stated to the first pair “in the day you eat from it [the tree of good and evil] you will positively die.” To the amazement of all who believe that wicked mankind will be burned and tortured for eternity - a fiery pit was never mentioned. Adam and Eve were recipients of a precious gift, that of life. If they failed to be obedient to the law of God they were told that that gift would be removed - they would become as before they were created - non-existent - they would die.

What did the angels say to Lot when that city was slated for destruction? They certainly did not say that these people were going to burn in hell, but they did say “…we are bringing this place to ruin…Jehovah sent us to bring the city to ruin.” Why? “…because the outcry against them has grown loud before God.” Were they threatened with everlasting fire? No, the fire and brimstone used - totally consumed both cities, the judgment was swift and complete.

During Noah’s time the Scripture tells us that “God saw that the badness of man was abundant in the earth and every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only bad all the time.” What did He do about this situation? He sought out the man that was righteous and chose him to preach and build an ark. For the reason that He himself said to Noah “The end of all flesh has come before me, because the earth is full of violence as a result of them; and here I am bringing them to ruin together with the earth.”

He did not wait for each individual to die and sentence them to a burning hell. God wanted the earth cleansed of wickedness so he acted completely and decisively. Just as in the illustration of the wheat and the weeds, they were all brought to their end en masse not one by one as some would have you believe.

The examples are numerous and if one so inclined can research these for themselves. If, therefore, wicked ones will not burn for eternity in a fiery pit - why the references to burning and fire? In the illustration of the wheat and weeds - the weeds were allowed to grow with the wheat for fear that by pulling up the weed one might pull up wheat. At the harvest the weeds were all identified as what they really are -poisonous imitation wheat - counterfeit Christians, these are pulled up and burned. Did they burn forever? No, they did not - there was no reason to keep the fire burning. The weeds were all done away with and by burning the weeds, the seeds from them were also consumed so that there was no danger that the true would become contaminated by the imitation ever again.

The imagery of a separating work extends also to the sheep and the goats. In this illustration all the nations are gathered before the Son of man, Jesus the Christ and he begins separating one from the other according to and on the basis of their treatment of Christ’s anointed brothers. Those put on his left hand would, as the Scripture indicates, Christ will say to them “…depart into everlasting cutting-off but the righteous ones into everlasting life.” Doesn’t say anything about fire - the word used in this text is kolasis [noun feminine] which means correction - penalty - punishment. Kolasis is from kolozo [verb] which means to lop off or prune. Thus, these on the left will be sentenced to everlasting cutting-off not burning forever in a torture chamber.

And the Devil who was misleading them was hurled into the lake of fire and sulphur, where both the wild beast and the false prophet already were.” (Revelation 20:9b-10a) Rather than being merely abyssed, this time Satan, the original serpent, will actually be crushed out of existence, pulverized, completely annihilated as if by fire.

The “lake of fire and sulphur” could not be a literal place of torment. (Revelation 19:20) If Satan were to suffer excruciating torture there for all eternity, Almighty God would have to preserve him alive. Yet, life is a gift, not a punishment. Death is the punishment for sin, and according to the Bible, dead creatures feel no pain. (Romans 6:23; Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10) Moreover, we read later that death itself, along with Hades, is cast into this same lake of fire and sulfur. Most surely, death and Hades cannot suffer pain!—Revelation 20:14.

What this does reinforce is that the lake of fire and sulfur is symbolic of a total blotting out a complete annihilation - just as the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah. In harmony with this, the Bible itself explains the meaning of the lake of fire and sulfur: “This means the second death, the lake of fire.” (Revelation 20:14) It is clearly the same as the Gehenna that Jesus spoke of, a place where the wicked remain destroyed, not tortured forever. (Matthew 10:28) It is complete, utter destruction without hope of a resurrection. Notice also that while there are keys for death, Hades, and the abyss, there is no mention of a key for opening the lake of fire and sulfur. (Revelation 1:18; 20:1)

Referring to the Devil as well as the wild beast and the false prophet, John now tells us: “And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.” (Revelation 20:10b) What could this mean? It is not logical to say that symbols, such as the wild beast and the false prophet, [which are representative of political entities] as well as death and Hades, could suffer torture in a literal way. Therefore, we have no reason to believe that Satan will be suffering for all eternity. He is to be annihilated. Genesis 3:15

The Greek word used here for “torment,” ba·sa·ni´zo, means primarily “to test (metals) by the touchstone.” “To question by applying torture” is a second meaning. (The New Thayer’s Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament) In the context, the use of this Greek word indicates that what happens to Satan will serve, for all eternity, as a touchstone on the issue of the rightness and righteousness of God’s rule. That issue of sovereign rulership will have been settled once and for all time. Never again will a challenge to Jehovah’s sovereignty need to be tested over an extended period of time in order to be proven wrong.—Compare Psalm 92:1, 15

In addition, the Greek Septuagint, which was well known to John, the related word ba´sa·nos is used to refer to humiliation that leads to death. (Ezekiel 32:24, 30) This helps us to see that the punishment that Satan undergoes is a humiliating, everlasting death in the lake of fire and sulfur. His works die with him.—1 John 3:8.

What was the Sabbath?

Posted by SARI:

What was the Sabbath? Why was it instituted? What is its meaning?

Yes, it was given as a day set apart by God for rest from regular labors and it served as a sign between him and the sons of Israel. (Ex 31:16, 17) I believe that this has already been established. But the Law was a shadow of the reality which Christ fulfilled. If Christ is the reality, then what is it that is reality?

When confronted by the Pharisees, Jesus powerfully taught that the they were wrong about the Sabbath law—that, in fact, they had missed the whole point of that law.

Jesus explained that he [the Christ] is “Lord of the sabbath” and therefore entitled to cure people on the Sabbath. (Matthew 12:8) To stress the point, he openly performed miraculous cures on the Sabbath. (Luke 6:7-10) Why did he do this? It is because these cures were a preview of the healing that he will perform earth wide during his Thousand Year Reign. [Revelation 20:4,6]

That Millennium will itself be the ultimate Sabbath, when all faithful mankind will at last rest from centuries of laboring under the burdens of sin and death

Therefore, the literal Sabbath day, which was meant to bring the Israelites relief from their labors, was, as Paul writes: is “a shadow of the things to come, but the reality belongs to the Christ.” (Colossians 2:16, 17)

For the fact that Christ made a point to perform some of his most outstanding miraculous works on the Sabbath shows that to be only a shadow of the kind of relief that he will bring when he raises mankind to spiritual and physical perfection during his coming Millennial Rule. This Sabbath will mirror and even exceed what the Sabbath law offered for only the Hebrew, but now because Christ, it will include every nation and tongue and people. Re 21:1-4.

Christ fulfilled the law - HE is “Lord of the Sabbath”, HIS Millennial reign. Why would you continue to go through meaningless ritual, when the reality has set you free?

Mark 2:28 " ... hence the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath.”

Luke 6:5 "And he went on to say to them: 'Lord of the sabbath is what the Son of man is.'”

Matthew 12:8 "For Lord of the sabbath is what the Son of man is"

It matters not whether there are 10 commandments or 15 or 30 written in stone. The fact is that the moral laws [written on the heart] were the ones that were restated in the Christian Greek Scriptures, Christ fulfilled the rest, they were taken out of the way - abolished by his tortuous death on a stake.

Why is it when confronted with the fact that Sunday was a holy day for the worshipers of Mithra, persons who believe Sunday to be the Christian’s sabbath will deny that the day was adopted from the pagans?

anthrôpos tês anomias

There is nothing wrong with a translation of lawlessness in 2 Thessalonians. It is stating what is originally written -

ανθρωπος της ανομιας

Transliterated - "anthrôpos tês anomias".

anomia = lawlessness [lawlessness, lawless conduct, the negation of law; BDAG 3rd Edition; LSL, Middle Liddell, Strong, et al]

"Don't be fooled by what they say. For that day will not come until there is a great rebellion against God and the man of lawlessness is revealed" - NLT

"Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed" - NIV

"Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed" - ESV

"Let no one in any way deceive you, for {it will not come} unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed" - NASB

"Let no one deceive you in any way; for that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed" - RSV


The Douay Rheims, however, reflects an outdated version of 2 Thessalonians 2:3 which relies upon a known manuscript variant in which hamartia is written rather than anomia.

Hamartia = "sin"

Anomia = "lawlessness" - just as SARI has posted.

Are they similar?

John compares the two terms in 1 John 3:4, "Pas ho poiôn tên hamartian kai tên anomian poiei, kai hê hamartia estin hê anomia".

"Everyone who sins also commits lawlessness. Sin is lawlessness"

So whether you believe the manuscript variant hamartia, or the oldest evidence in support of anomian, according to the various texts [John is only one example above] the understanding is the same.